Doesn’t really explain how we can keep the clause in the s and p agreements. Seems to me that totally relies on people remembering. Food for thought anyway. regds roz
From: High Street Cohousing ucoldunedin@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, 16 January 2021 3:55 pm To: Roz Wilson michael.rosemary@xtra.co.nz Cc: Alex King alex@king.net.nz; UCOL shareholders ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz Subject: Re: [Ucol-shareholders] How to include Toiora Cohousing Agreement in future sales.
Hi Roz
When push comes to shove, I don't think anything in our Toiora Agreement will be able to be 'enforced'. As Alex said, we don't build a community through legal structures, we build a community through doing things people want to be part of. And retaining Cohousing in our name reminds us and everyone else that this is our intention: to live in this neighbourhood in this particular way, because we value it.
If we end up with someone in the neighbourhood who is adamantly against taking any part in that, there is no enforcement or sanction we can apply. But to try to avoid that, we can be very clear about expectations, and about why we have these expectations - because we find this a better way to live together, more fun, with lots of benefits for us and for others, and that is what we value. And we need to do all we can to ensure that people are aware of these things and understand why they are important to us.
That is why induction workshops and education about what cohousing is will continue to be important - so that as many people as possible will be wanting to buy in or take up a tenancy at Toiora High St Cohousing, because they want to be part of living like this.
Enforcement? No, that's not what we are about. Living as a cohousing neighbourhood? Yes, that's what we have worked 7 years for, and that is not something I will give up.
Anne
Anne
On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 2:52 PM Roz Wilson <michael.rosemary@xtra.co.nz mailto:michael.rosemary@xtra.co.nz > wrote:
Hi, can see occasions when a sale could go almost unnoticed. Sale to family member, sale by someone who is hacked off with the group, sale when someone dies, mortgagee sale by bank.
This is just something that came up from the 4th (?) minute and so far neither of us can see a guaranteed way to make sure it is in s and p’s forever. by the same token wonder how much weight the 5% rule carried anyway. if someone sells even if everyone in the group knows about it can it even be enforced?
Regds roz
From: Alex King <alex@king.net.nz mailto:alex@king.net.nz > Sent: Saturday, 16 January 2021 1:42 pm To: Roz Wilson <michael.rosemary@xtra.co.nz mailto:michael.rosemary@xtra.co.nz > Cc: UCOL Shareholders <Ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz mailto:Ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz > Subject: How to include Toiora Cohousing Agreement in future sales.
Roz makes a good point.
I suggest we add an appendix to the Toiora Cohousing Agreement with a sample further terms of sale to be added to future sale and purchase agreements. So people can copy and paste, and give it to their real estate agents to include in future agreements.
Also it would be helpful to have some procedure that would remind people to do this when they are considering selling. Are we going to have a marketing group? It might be there job.
In light of our decisions last night, it makes sense to review the Toiora Cohousing Agreement. For example, the first paragraph in that agreement is:
"This Agreement is binding on all members of the Toiora High Street Cohousing Community. This is in accordance with the Agreement to Enter a Covenant and Deed of Covenant signed by current purchasers and is a Condition of Sale for subsequent purchasers."
That is inconsistent with the decisions we made last night. I prefer if we can keep our agreements simple and consistent, but actually we have a lot of work to do if we want that.
Thanks, Alex
On 16/01/21 12:40 pm, Roz Wilson wrote:
Hi alex, did email susan but maybe you know. How do we make sure future sales of units have the suggested clause in the s and p agreement? Usually by the time the agreement gets to a lawyer it is signed by vendor and purchaser. And, eg, would our lawyer know to make sure the clause was included? How can we be sure it won’t be forgotten or left out and if we can’t be sure maybe it is pointless to have it? regds roz
From: Ucol-shareholders mailto:ucol-shareholders-bounces@list.king.net.nz ucol-shareholders-bounces@list.king.net.nz On Behalf Of Alex King via Ucol-shareholders Sent: Saturday, 16 January 2021 12:34 pm To: UCOL Shareholders mailto:Ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz Ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz Subject: Re: [Ucol-shareholders] name change?
Toiora High Street Cohousing is probably an unincorporated association (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unincorporated_association), which is a group of people doing something together under a set of rules ("Toiora Cohousing Agreement" a.k.a. Warren's rules). But we can't enter into any contracts or be directly subject to any legal actions (only the individual members on behalf of Toiora High Street Cohousing.)
We do have two associated legal entities, UCOL and the Body Corporate. Neither of them is ever going to be named Toiora High Street Cohousing, and nor does that matter in the slightest.
Since we are an unincorporated entity and can't enter into contracts, it follows that it's absolutely immaterial to the bank what we call ourselves.
Incidentally, for those of a legal bent, we are currently subject to the Toiora Cohousing Agreement because we agreed to it. We also agreed last night to make it a condition of sale if we sell in future. I'm not sure about the DCC unit, but if any houses were sold in a Mortgagee sale they would not need to include that, as the banks are not part of our agreement to do this. So future purchasers through a mortgagee sale are not legally bound to join Toiora High Street Cohousing.
I don't think this is a problem in practice however. We don't build a community through legal structures, we build a community through doing things people want to be part of. New people coming in will typically want to fit in and and sign up to Cohousing, and will likely sign up to the Toiora Cohousing Agreement. But if not it doesn't really matter; its people's behaviour and whether they are cooperating that actually matters rather than whether they have signed the agreement.
All the more important to keep Cohousing in our name, so we are clear for everyone who joins in future.
Thanks, Alex
On 16/01/21 11:46 am, Alex King via Ucol-shareholders wrote:
I see no reason to change our name from Toiora High Street Cohousing?
As always, we should first be discussing what we want ourselves. Then once we have decided that, we (probably a small working group) should then work out how to do what we agreed on, within any limitations that might be put on us by outside parties.
I agree with Gay, I don't understand Stephen Edge to be asking us to change our name?
If people want to have input into what we call ourselves in the body corporate rules, please come along to the body corporate rules working group tomorrow at Min's place.
It's interesting to note as an aside with regards to outside limitations, our official body corporate name will be "Body Corporate Number" and a number which will shortly be assigned to us by the Registrar-General of Land. https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2010/0022/latest/DLM1160649.html
Thanks, Alex
On 16/01/21 10:53 am, Liz Mitchell wrote:
I agree Gay, I also love to be identified as Cohousing, so would like to know if we can keep the name.
Liz
On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 at 9:53 AM, Gay Buckingham <gaybuckingham@tuatara.net.nz mailto:gaybuckingham@tuatara.net.nz > wrote:
I really like being proudly cohousing.
I understood from the Stephen Edge letter it is reference to cohousing in the legal document which is the sticking point, not the name.
If I am correct there would be no need to change the name.
Can someone in direct communication with him ask for a yes/no response to use of cohousing in our name?
Gay
Gay Buckingham
+64 27 4544012
On 15/01/2021, at 11:24 AM, Maria Callau <maria@sur-architecture.com mailto:maria@sur-architecture.com > wrote:
How about "Toiora High St" - Cohousing.
Then we can use the first part for the bank, both parts for the newspaper and the third part for our friends...
To be honest I always refer to our project as "cohousing". I don't really use the other words...
And people always ask me: how is the "cohousing" project going?
That reflects who we are and that is what matters most, isn't it?
Maria
Kind Regards,
Maria Callau
0211847490
SUR Architecture Limited
www.sur-architecture.com http://www.sur-architecture.com/
On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:49 AM <mariannequinn@xtra.co.nz mailto:mariannequinn@xtra.co.nz > wrote:
Hi all: if we have to drop Cohousing from the name, I like this suggestion from Min – ‘Toiora High St’.
Not to draw too fine a parallel, but everyone know that ‘Summerset’ is Summerset Retirement village’ but the full title rarely used.
Thanks to everyone for such a full attendance last night; for having thought through these issues and being willing to find a way forward for us all. Cohousing at its best!
(warm) regards on another warm day in DN!
Marianne
Marianne Quinn
Level 3, 115 Stuart Street, Dunedin https://www.google.com/maps/search/115+Stuart+Street,+Dunedin?entry=gmail&source=g
P.O. Box 20, Dunedin 9054
ph +6434773115 or 0211612050
From: bluefrog <bluefrog@orcon.net.nz mailto:bluefrog@orcon.net.nz > Sent: Friday, 15 January 2021 9:00 AM To: Roz Wilson <michael.rosemary@xtra.co.nz mailto:michael.rosemary@xtra.co.nz >; alex king <alex@king.net.nz mailto:alex@king.net.nz >; Anne Thomson <e.anne.thomson@gmail.com mailto:e.anne.thomson@gmail.com >; Catherine Spencer <cmspencer.nz@zoho.com mailto:cmspencer.nz@zoho.com >; claire loftus <permacultureparadise@gmail.com mailto:permacultureparadise@gmail.com >; Dennis Chan <firstjuly@gmail.com mailto:firstjuly@gmail.com >; donald and miriam <donaldshand18@gmail.com mailto:donaldshand18@gmail.com >; 'Gay Buckingham' <gaybuckingham@tuatara.net.nz mailto:gaybuckingham@tuatara.net.nz >; Jan Burch <jrb5050@gmail.com mailto:jrb5050@gmail.com >; Jessica Shields <jess.alice.shields@gmail.com mailto:jess.alice.shields@gmail.com >; Liz Mitchell <lizfrizzle1962@gmail.com mailto:lizfrizzle1962@gmail.com >; Maria Callau <maria@sur-architecture.com mailto:maria@sur-architecture.com >; marianne quinn <mariannequinn@xtra.co.nz mailto:mariannequinn@xtra.co.nz >; mikehazelnz@gmail.com mailto:mikehazelnz@gmail.com ; rainer <rainer.ucol@gmail.com mailto:rainer.ucol@gmail.com >; 'Rosemarie Smith' <rose@voland.co.nz mailto:rose@voland.co.nz >; Sander Zwanenburg <sander.zwanenburg@otago.ac.nz mailto:sander.zwanenburg@otago.ac.nz >; Sandy Ross <sfross@xtra.co.nz mailto:sfross@xtra.co.nz >; sara ferreira <ferreirasara@yahoo.com mailto:ferreirasara@yahoo.com >; Susan Jack <susanjjack@gmail.com mailto:susanjjack@gmail.com >; Susan Taylor <taysue70@gmail.com mailto:taysue70@gmail.com >; 'Tim Ross' <tim@architype.co.nz mailto:tim@architype.co.nz >; warren hurley <warren.hurley@orcon.net.nz mailto:warren.hurley@orcon.net.nz > Subject: RE: FW: name change?
"Toiora High Street"
Just this sounds good too.
Min
-------- Original message --------
From: Roz Wilson <michael.rosemary@xtra.co.nz mailto:michael.rosemary@xtra.co.nz >
Date: 15/01/2021 8:40 am (GMT+12:00)
To: alex king <alex@king.net.nz mailto:alex@king.net.nz >, Anne Thomson <e.anne.thomson@gmail.com mailto:e.anne.thomson@gmail.com >, Catherine Spencer <cmspencer.nz@zoho.com mailto:cmspencer.nz@zoho.com >, claire loftus <permacultureparadise@gmail.com mailto:permacultureparadise@gmail.com >, Dennis Chan <firstjuly@gmail.com mailto:firstjuly@gmail.com >, donald and miriam <donaldshand18@gmail.com mailto:donaldshand18@gmail.com >, 'Gay Buckingham' <gaybuckingham@tuatara.net.nz mailto:gaybuckingham@tuatara.net.nz >, Jan Burch <jrb5050@gmail.com mailto:jrb5050@gmail.com >, Jessica Shields <jess.alice.shields@gmail.com mailto:jess.alice.shields@gmail.com >, Liz Mitchell <lizfrizzle1962@gmail.com mailto:lizfrizzle1962@gmail.com >, Maria Callau <maria@sur-architecture.com mailto:maria@sur-architecture.com >, marianne quinn <mariannequinn@xtra.co.nz mailto:mariannequinn@xtra.co.nz >, mikehazelnz@gmail.com mailto:mikehazelnz@gmail.com , Min <bluefrog@orcon.net.nz mailto:bluefrog@orcon.net.nz >, rainer <rainer.ucol@gmail.com mailto:rainer.ucol@gmail.com >, 'Rosemarie Smith' <rose@voland.co.nz mailto:rose@voland.co.nz >, Sander Zwanenburg <sander.zwanenburg@otago.ac.nz mailto:sander.zwanenburg@otago.ac.nz >, Sandy Ross <sfross@xtra.co.nz mailto:sfross@xtra.co.nz >, sara ferreira <ferreirasara@yahoo.com mailto:ferreirasara@yahoo.com >, Susan Jack <susanjjack@gmail.com mailto:susanjjack@gmail.com >, Susan Taylor <taysue70@gmail.com mailto:taysue70@gmail.com >, 'Tim Ross' <tim@architype.co.nz mailto:tim@architype.co.nz >, warren hurley warren.hurley@orcon.net.nz
Subject: FW: name change?
I got rejected by chat, again so try this.
From: Roz Wilson <michael.rosemary@xtra.co.nz mailto:michael.rosemary@xtra.co.nz > Sent: Friday, 15 January 2021 8:35 am To: ucol chat (mailto:ucol-chat@list.king.net.nz) mailto:ucol-chat@list.king.net.nz Subject: name change?
Some talk last night about maybe changing the name. can’t imagine saying ‘oh I live in the neighbourhood in high st’ but think anne once called us a village. Now that I could imagine. By the time we even talk about it I may have forgotten so am chucking it out now. regds roz
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