On 15/06/2020, at 1:20 PM, Pauline Taylor <pauline.anne.taylor@gmail.com> wrote:_______________________________________________Hi everyoneSo, my question is "Is it too late to do this process differently and in a way that we can get a greater consensus. I know that some have suggested other ways(of voting etc) Can this be first on the agenda for the next meeting? Having further reflected on my own internal process and the community's this is how I would feel most comfortable to proceed.Kind regardsPaulineOn Mon, 15 Jun 2020 at 10:31 AM, Susan Jack <susanjjack@gmail.com> wrote:Hi allKristin and I went up to Toiora Cohousing yesterday to have a look - great progress! However, I'm very disappointed at the process that was taken regarding the colour of paint for the buildings. I still don't like Pueblo - too orange and seems to clash with a lot of the coloured doors. As others have said, we have our process for consensus decision making and I cannot work out why we did not follow this for such an important decision that we will end up seeing everyday. Although we (Kristin and I) still much prefer scoria, the other colour options that are on the painted boards outside our unit would have also been acceptable to us rather than Pueblo. I liked Sander's voting idea of 10 votes per household as this would have given a much better idea of how strongly people felt about the colour options.I'm hopeful I can start joining in the meetings again soon.Cheers,Susan_______________________________________________On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 7:05 PM Tim Ross <tim@architype.co.nz> wrote:_______________________________________________Hi All,I would be against using any voting system unless our consensus decision making system failed us.When we joined the group, we didn't know what the project would finally look like but we took great comfort from knowing that if we absolutely could not live with a decision we would have the opportunity of using the 'red card. to block consensus and work to find options we could all live with.While we have never done this, it meant that we knew that we wouldn't be forced to live in a neighbourhood we would be fundamentally unhappy with.I feel there is great strength in the coloured car system for reflecting a range and strength of views. It is a system that has served us extremely well and I don't see why we need to introduce alternative voting systems.I don't see any reason why the cladding selection process could not have asked people to put colours against either option, strongly against (red), against (orange), neutral (blue) and for (green). This would have shown how many people had strong oversions to either (or both) options and assisted in finding a colour we all felt we could live with.I realise that people mentioned the term 'vote' during the process but I interpreted this use of the wrong term, as we always 'show cards' rather than use binding votes hence why I expected an expression of opinions then room for alternatives.Tim.On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 2:22 PM Alex King via Ucol-shareholders <ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz> wrote:_______________________________________________Thanks for your considered message about voting Sander.
I prefer STV, although it works best when there are more than 2 choices, otherwise it turns out the same as the vote we just had. I'd be happy with your 10 votes per household system.
I didn't have a strong preference either way, so I didn't participate. But I had a strong urge to vote for the underdog as a protest against having the decision sprung on us this way.
I don't think it's any individual's "fault," but from what I have observed in the building industry there is a general tendency to not address issues in time and leave them to be addressed in a "crisis" mode at last minute. Perhaps it's a Kiwi thing.
Thanks,
Alex
On 9/06/20 12:42 pm, Sander Zwanenburg wrote:
Kia ora koutou
Here's my view.
While consensus seeking through discussion is preferred, sometimes it is not feasible. People may weigh up the pros and cons differently. Or there may simply be a lack of time to get all information on the table.
In those circumstances, I think a well-informed vote is appropriate. This means that if there is little time, we try to get as much information on the table as possible while still allowing people to reflect 'in peace' and cast their vote.
There a many ways of voting:
- Votes per household or per adult of 16 years or older
- One or say 10 votes per each
- Tick one option per vote or rank the options and make votes transferable
My preference is 10 votes per adult, non-transferable. It reduces the need to resolve household conflicts. People can spread over multiple options if they want to. Or if they don't feel strongly about the matter, they can cast only a few. Ties will be very unlikely (no need to restart the process or call the mayor). We simply take the option with the most votes. It is simple to understand, explain, and administer. It doesn't cause headaches or confusion.
Reflecting on what Marianne and Anne have said, I think that whatever system we adopt, its success depends on our mind-set:
- Trust the group. There is wisdom in crowds, especially well-informed ones!
- Recognize that everyone has their biases. It is human nature to dig in and defend one's stance but that prevents adopting or accepting different viewpoints.
- Accept the outcome; we can at least be grateful for not having the decision made for us by ill-informed policy makers or career politicians!
With this in mind, I don't think we should beat ourselves up over this past vote. There was discussion over quite a few emails. Nearly everyone participated in the vote despite (or because of?) the limited time. I’m sure many communities and neighbourhoods strive to get this level of engagement.
Nga mihi
Sander
PS: Anne, I think we have a copy at home, happy to pass along. And tomorrow is Wednesday, not Thursday.
From: Ucol-shareholders <ucol-shareholders-bounces@list.king.net.nz> On Behalf Of Anne Thomson
Sent: Tuesday, 9 June 2020 9:36 AM
To: Tim Ross <tim@architype.co.nz>
Cc: High St Cohousing <ucolbuild@gmail.com>; UCOL shareholders <ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ucol-shareholders] Cladding Colour
Thanks, Tim. And I remember that we have been asking for these colour samples for a long time.
Binary decisions get tricky in a consensus decision-making environment, as we've seen now on two occasions. Paint colours can't be mixed together without producing a muddy colour no one wants. (And at three-way choice would probably have got even muddier)
I suggest we need to consider how we will make these decisions in the future - I am sure there is a mechanism, like the one Claire suggested, which gives weight to the strength of opinions as well as to what we prefer. I preferred Scoria but I also knew that I would be happy with whichever colour, and would get used to it. For others it may well have been a more important decision.
I also acknowledge that part of the cost of cohousing (was that what it was called in the "Happily Ever After" book?) is not getting your first choice all the time. I think the trick will be making sure that we all have a turn at losing, at being in the minority, at graciously giving in. (And not holding on to that.)
And as an aside, who currently has the copies of "Happily Ever After"? I feel I could be ready for a second read through - and others may not have had a first chance yet.
See you all tomorrow night on Zoom
Anne
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 9:09 AM Tim Ross <tim@architype.co.nz> wrote:
Hi All,
Based on the feedback from the group I am going to withdraw my suggestion that we consider other colour options for the cladding.
But for the record, I requested cladding colour samples on the 10 Dec 2019 and we only got them last week.
Kind Regards,
Tim.
On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:45 PM Tim Ross <tim@architype.co.nz> wrote:
Hi All,
As a group which has tried to form consensus on most if not all our decisions I think we need to do better than a near 50/50 split on this decision.
Having seen how the colours looked on site and having had the chance to hear others thoughts I asked painters to provide a couple of brighter red brick colour samples including pioneer red which is the colour used on the corrugated house down the hill.
Choosing the paint colour is becoming urgent but I think it is more important to consider options carefully and get greater buy in than rushing this.
Tim.
On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 6:09 PM, High St Cohousing <ucolbuild@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Thanks to all for taking the time to vote on the colours for the cladding.
The colour with more votes is PUEBLO with 9 votes.
8 votes went for SCORIA
4 votes went to "no preference"
3 were blank: 2 people didn't submit their vote and the DCC unit was blank.
Attached is a screenshot of the spreadsheet taken just now.
I am proceeding to inform the Project Manager/Builders about this.
I also want to apologize for the rush procedure as I don't think that this was a good way of proceeding with these kinds of decisions...
Unfortunately, I was just notified on our site meeting on Friday morning that we needed a decision by Monday.
Thanks to Sander for organizing the spreadsheet and thank you all for your effort to express your preferences with such short notice.
We shall see the colour up in some of the walls very soon...
Thanks,
Maria
--
Maria Callau
High Street Cohousing
UCOL Member and Project Coordinator
0211847490
_______________________________________________
Ucol-shareholders mailing list
Ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz
https://list.king.net.nz/listinfo/ucol-shareholders--
_______________________________________________
Ucol-shareholders mailing list
Ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz
https://list.king.net.nz/listinfo/ucol-shareholders
_______________________________________________ Ucol-shareholders mailing list Ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz https://list.king.net.nz/listinfo/ucol-shareholders
Ucol-shareholders mailing list
Ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz
https://list.king.net.nz/listinfo/ucol-shareholders
Ucol-shareholders mailing list
Ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz
https://list.king.net.nz/listinfo/ucol-shareholders
Ucol-shareholders mailing list
Ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz
https://list.king.net.nz/listinfo/ucol-shareholders
Ucol-shareholders mailing list
Ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz
https://list.king.net.nz/listinfo/ucol-shareholders
