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answer to Rainers question on meal cost
by Jeffrey Robinson 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

The current plan for the common house meals: they will cost $6 per adult, $3 for children under 12, bookings are made through Gather at least 2 days beforehand so the cooks know how many to cook for, Gather will send out a monthly bill and residents will pay into the kitchen account. We described some of these at a previous meeting but it will need to be tested by doing it to see how it works. We are hoping that the kitchen installation will be completed in September and we can begin cooking there on October 4th. Jeffrey

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an apology and some light on the situation
by Jeffrey Robinson 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

Hi everyone I apologise to Donald, Miriam, Marianne and anyone else, if I offended them. This was never my intention and I sincerely appreciate the huge efforts of the garden group. My question was one of process, especially in light of the document we just accepted into the membership agreement about how working groups present proposals. I have had a brief conversation with Donald and Miriam and a longer one with Min. I believe the underlying problem is one of different working groups following different processes of consultation with the rest of the community. Paraphrasing Min (and please correct me if I get this wrong Min) "The garden working group have talked at great length about how to organize the garden and what to grow and issued invitations to the community members to attend meetings to discuss these ideas or to talk to individual garden group members about the garden and give suggestions. It was assumed by the garden group that if community members did not attend these garden group meetings then they were not interested." Other working groups have come to the general meetings and presented ideas, options and proposals. Questions are asked, sometimes the community doesn't agree with what a group is suggesting. This happened to my working group, the kitchen group. We were worried that we would be short of funds in the final budget and we suggested at a meeting that we ask the Toiroa community for loans and gifts. The meeting rejected this idea (and the meeting was right, we ended up with the full budget). The kitchen group went away and got on with the job. The conciliation group had a working document sent back twice by the meeting, they persevered and last night it was passed. The signage group has had their ideas sent back twice and... (watch this space). The newly accepted Meeting Guidelines includes a section entitled 'Proposals from Work Groups', which outlines this latter method as the way working groups should present their work to the community. Personally, I am very interested in how the gardens are laid out, in what is being grown for eating or for beauty and all the rest. I appreciate the invitation to the garden group meetings, but since we moved in I have my own working group meetings to attend and the resulting work to do, working bees, decorating, work, busy life etc etc. I have been expecting to see a proposal from the garden group given to the general meeting, talking about options and ideas that we would discuss and agree on. Proposals of how the vege beds would be used, what is happening with the lawn, where the tiled outside area with shady trees and the pizza oven might be etc, etc. My question stemmed from my expectation that this would be the process followed. I believe that, like myself, other community members have very little idea what the garden group is thinking and planning, and we would very much like to know. SincerelyJeffrey

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Meeting guidelines
by Sander Paul Zwanenburg 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

Kia ora koutou I held up a red card when this discussion derailed yesterday, ironically after we passed with unanimous green a minute around “Meeting guidelines”. With unanimous green we agreed that when decisions are important, they are minuted and that we circulate notes with a discussion that led to these decisions. We take them by consensus only. Work Groups prepare them with research and recommendations. Yesterday it came to light that ‘the decision’ around garden use 1) was important, 2) has had some history of communication and much investment (emotionally, physically, and timewise) but that 3) it hadn’t gone through the Decision Making Process. If we follow that Process we can anticipate reaching consensus just like we consistently achieve, and include those close to the matter and those further away. It would also mean that we start discussions about important decisions being well informed and considered without ill-prepared discussions with impromptu comments that can surprise. It felt to me that Jeffrey essentially raised a process observation but it morphed into an unprepared discussion about options to use the garden (or lack thereof), hence my red card. While I happily support suggestions by Rainer and Jess for setting apart more time to work out the things they suggest, including Work Group autonomy as proposed by Anne, I also believe that we have put much wisdom in our guidelines that we should not forget. Regards Sander

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A proposal in response to Rainers email:
by Jessica Shields 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

Kia ora koutou This was also keeping me up last night. I’m glad others were feeling as bad as I was about the garden discussion and how that made Donald and Miriam feel. I propose we use at least one Thursday of the “off weeks” a month for workshops dedicated to specific issues (e.g. use of commonhouse, use of garden space, what is cohousing to us/ what do we want from it/what can we give to it?, communication incl. how to use Gather, what concepts/word associations do we have with Toiora cohousing (this will be particularly helpful for the signs group, and any future murals we might want). For this to work I would think ideally everyone would come, but for those that couldn’t attend, ideas could be left in the commonhouse on the walls for people to add to/peruse, and after such workshops the various groups that have already been working in the respective areas would get together and work with what the whole group had put forward, then being clarified ideas back to the group at meetings. I’d suggest we do the discussion about how we see cohousing and what it means to us as the first one, as this relates back to our vision statement and what we all envisioned we were joining. I thought last night’s meeting illuminated some of the issues we haven’t put time into yet, and was really excited by Catherine’s comments, which is where this proposal comes from. I am really looking forward to such evenings with everyone - I think they have the potential to be fun, provide bonding between us and be helpful to get us all seeing things in a cohesive way. So what do people think? Jess On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 at 1:04 PM, Rainer Beneke <rainer.ucol(a)gmail.com> wrote: > *Toiora weekend Hui:* > > Hi All > > I feel disturbed about last nights conversation about the use of the > vegetable garden area. I noticed that Donald felt very hurt, not being > acknowledged about his efforts of transforming a heap of hard dirt into a > usable vegetable garden, and that he has informed us that he will not be > working on the vegetable garden any further until it is sorted who can use > it. > > Especially upsetting I found Alex’s comment that it is possible for the > bodycorp to ‘lease garden plots to people interested’. If we would want to > do this we may as well charge for on-site parking, levy wash house users, > ‘lease’ land for the sauna area (at least 2 garden plots worth), lease the > workshop area to those who store their personal tools there (currently > there are no common tools), charge for bike storage space. And should those > who opt out of wanting to use the guest accommodation get a credit? etc. > > This would of cause have implications, as people who use the sauna will > not only pay $3 to the bodycorp for electricity, but I would charge $15 per > person to recoup cost of lease and the $1100 I invested for fence, deck, > bench etc. I would need to charge for use of space and tools in the > workshop, charge the body if it’s for common use. > > We may as well change our name, as ‘cohousing’ seems inappropriate. It was > a very stupid comment Alex, and I already regret your long and winding > reply to this email. > > Overlooked in this gardening question is that growing your own vegetables > is usually much more expensive than buying them, not to mention the ongoing > hard work to succeed. > Overlooked also is that we have not sorted how we will pay for the common > cooked meals? I know that some fear it will be expensive. At Earth song the > group who prepares the meal pays for it. > > Clear to me is that while there is a designated vegetable garden, the > vegetables grown are not automatically free to anyone who wants then, just > like our workshop doesn’t mean anyone can use any tool in sight. > > Jeffrey suggested a Toiora weekend hui, which I agree is badly needed. But > the question is not: ...what do we want from our community'? ( Jeffrey). *The > question to ask is what do I **want to give** to our community?* > > Regards Rainer > > > *Please call me if you need an urgent reply.* > > Rainer Beneke > +64 21 144 7700 > _______________________________________________ > Ucol-shareholders mailing list > Ucol-shareholders(a)list.king.net.nz > https://list.king.net.nz/listinfo/ucol-shareholders >

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response to Rainer's email and last night's meeting
by mariannequinn＠xtra.co.nz 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

Thanks, Rainer. Seems we weren't the only people who had disrupted sleep last night after what felt like a mean spirited attack on the efforts of quite a few to get the garden(s) ready for the Opening and also for planting. Donald has put in countless hours of work and he was deeply affected by these remarks. So was I - I found it hard to keep writing the notes as I struggled to absorb what felt like an assault and felt my energy for this community ebbing away. So here's my bit to add to Rainer's email: ' Since Nov, 2020, a number of D unit owners have made it clear that a big drawcard for them around this project is the creation of gardens that will delight and also feed those who wish to participate. Donald and Miriam have led this effort, along with others. They have also put in a massive number of hours readying the property for the Open day - efforts that may well have gone over Alex's head, as he was out of town during this process, as was Anne, who had chosen the date.( That's life, but it doesn't make it OK to overlook what was done during this absence and since). Tim has also made it clear that if the available space in the 'designated' garden area isn't sufficient, we can move out onto the lawn. Gardens are a living thing: we expect that they may grow and shrink, depending on the number of folk who want to put in the effort to grow vegetables in particular. Halting this progress on the cusp of spring is daft. Why spoil this momentum? And for what?? Thanks for hearing the impact of this on the 'spirits' of a number of us. Regards, Marianne Marianne Quinn Clinical Psychologist & Psychotherapist Level 3, 115 Stuart Street, Dunedin P.O. Box 20, Dunedin 9054 ph +6434773115 or 0211612050

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TOIORA defects - update
by Juan Puricelli 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

Hi All, quick update and fixed information below and as mentioned yesterday to some of you that had also trouble opening spreadsheets. This link below hopefully works for all of us now. --- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NXwR2ORkVFjQRB4sca5NDhP5NZ8GZ1KqKyp1fR4… Any questions, grab me over the weekend and we try our best. Regards. Juan Puricelli Director cel. +64 (022) 6585021 ________________________________________ SUR ARCHITECTURE www.sur-architecture.com

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Toiora weekend Hui:
by Rainer Beneke 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

Toiora weekend Hui: Hi All I feel disturbed about last nights conversation about the use of the vegetable garden area. I noticed that Donald felt very hurt, not being acknowledged about his efforts of transforming a heap of hard dirt into a usable vegetable garden, and that he has informed us that he will not be working on the vegetable garden any further until it is sorted who can use it. Especially upsetting I found Alex’s comment that it is possible for the bodycorp to ‘lease garden plots to people interested’. If we would want to do this we may as well charge for on-site parking, levy wash house users, ‘lease’ land for the sauna area (at least 2 garden plots worth), lease the workshop area to those who store their personal tools there (currently there are no common tools), charge for bike storage space. And should those who opt out of wanting to use the guest accommodation get a credit? etc. This would of cause have implications, as people who use the sauna will not only pay $3 to the bodycorp for electricity, but I would charge $15 per person to recoup cost of lease and the $1100 I invested for fence, deck, bench etc. I would need to charge for use of space and tools in the workshop, charge the body if it’s for common use. We may as well change our name, as ‘cohousing’ seems inappropriate. It was a very stupid comment Alex, and I already regret your long and winding reply to this email. Overlooked in this gardening question is that growing your own vegetables is usually much more expensive than buying them, not to mention the ongoing hard work to succeed. Overlooked also is that we have not sorted how we will pay for the common cooked meals? I know that some fear it will be expensive. At Earth song the group who prepares the meal pays for it. Clear to me is that while there is a designated vegetable garden, the vegetables grown are not automatically free to anyone who wants then, just like our workshop doesn’t mean anyone can use any tool in sight. Jeffrey suggested a Toiora weekend hui, which I agree is badly needed. But the question is not: ...what do we want from our community'? ( Jeffrey). The question to ask is what do I want to give to our community? Regards Rainer Please call me if you need an urgent reply. Rainer Beneke +64 21 144 7700

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Toiora shared meal 6.45pm tonight Thursday
by Anne Thomson 12 Aug '21

12 Aug '21

Hi all, Since two times have been suggested for tonight's meal, it is probably easier for most to go with the later time. Let's eat at 6.45pm and meet at 7.30 pm. Anne

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agenda confirmed for thurs 12th Aug 7.30pm
by mariannequinn＠xtra.co.nz 11 Aug '21

11 Aug '21

Hi to you all: see attached updated agenda. NB: I have a meeting tonight so if you've been sitting on anything else, I won't know about this until tomorrow morning and it may just need to wait for the meeting on 26th August. Best wishes meantime: see you tomorrow night. Regards, Marianne Marianne Quinn Level 3, 115 Stuart Street, Dunedin P.O. Box 20, Dunedin 9054 ph +6434773115 or 0211612050

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re updated agenda and group reports for meeting thurs 12th Aug
by mariannequinn＠xtra.co.nz 10 Aug '21

10 Aug '21

Morena all: lovely to see the sun! See attached agenda and associated reports for the meeting. These include the long anticipated wording for the 'Dispute resolution process' that has arrived from our lawyer, as sent through by Anne T, an update on the Body Corp finances, a report from the Garden group and the updated suggested changes to our Living together agreement from the Conciliation team. Do read on - Best wishes meantime, Marianne Marianne Quinn Level 3, 115 Stuart Street, Dunedin P.O. Box 20, Dunedin 9054 ph +6434773115 or 0211612050

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