Hi folks I'm sending this to Sara as well as shareholders in the hope that it arrives in time for tonight's meeting.
*Recommendation: Spend $1500 getting Dunedin Security to install two E-LOKs - brochure attached.*
If you want the background and have time for a long story read on.... Rick and I looked at locks at Placemakers, Mitre 10 and Bunnings. Each one recommended that we go for one that is capable of the wireless and/or blue tooth entry that Alex talked about. It will still have a keypad but if we buy one that has just a keypad we're 'investing in old technology". Coincidentally the American cohousing email list has recently had an article that talked about how important it is to make a good investment in the first place (will copy the content and paste below). So a lock from Mitre 10 etc that does more than simply keypad entry is going to be about $450 or more... BUT it isn't as easy as just buying a couple off the shelf. The hole cut into the door for a particular lock turns out not to be standard. The one by Sara's unit is particularly large so only a small selection of possible locks will fit into it. I'd assumed that my multi-talented Rick would be able to switch them out, but he has assured me that I am overestimating his talents and nothing is as easy as the YouTube sales video says it will be. So we went to two well known locksmiths: Beggs and Dunedin Security, and after visiting each of them we are wholeheartedly recommending E-LOK with Dunedin Security to install.
The E-LOK is a bit more expensive ($530 from Dunedin Security, $580 from Beggs) but both places recommended it, saying it is way more robust than the ones we'd been considering and very easy to use. They would come out and fit it. Beggs said approx $150 for each install. Dunedin Security said door by Sara's would be 530+approx $100 but installation at the other door would be more (because they need to cut the aluminium door to give a larger hole) so looking at approximately $900 in total for the second door.
*I recommend that we ask Dunedin Security to install E-LOKs at both doors for a total cost of approx $1,530. I think they said that once we made the order it would usually be about a week for it to be done. *
The E-LOK can do heaps of things in addition to using the keypad. (1) being electronic, it lights up when you touch it - great for use in the dark. (2) you can operate it from a phone app - so potentially a Toioran could be "ön duty" and when they receive a text from someone delivering something to the Common House they could unlock the door for it ... from wherever they happen to be at the time. You could even put me "ön duty" in America! (3) it is possible to do fingerprint entry and swipe-fob entry, but the fingerprint isn't designed for as many people as we have and any lost fobs will cost about $25 to replace, so I don't think we'd want that... however it might be useful if we wanted someone to have temporary access - eg instead of being told the code, any "friends of Toiora"could pay $25 to be issued with a fob,. If it wasn't returned when they were no longer our friends we could program it not to work.
If you aren't convinced by now, read on for advice from a long-time-cohouser when asked about security for the common areas:
*HERE IS THE RESPONSE TO THE QUESTION ASKED ON THE EMAIL LIST (remember their winters are way more severe than ours!):* What we have at Takoma is: AEGIS 7000 Series http://www.pach-co.com/products/aegis%20series/aegis7000/aegis7000%20manual....
It is about 10 years old now so there are probably updated ones now. I did the replacement when our first system was hit by lightning so I remember the research and the problems. Advice based on our experience:
1. Find a security / locksmith person who is dependable and recommends a good quality product. Larger cohousing communities are semi-commercial and things wear out. We have 60+ adults and several teens who use the entry system and some of them several times a day. We use our locksmith much more often than you would think based on your own personal experience. But they recommended an entry system that we thought was too expensive. We should have stayed with them. We used another service that was recommended to us but had to have the installer come back and install other features or correct settings several times, and he refused to do even the first programming because “it takes too long.” We had to have things like a heater installed as an addon — not revealed when researching systems. Part of the entry system couldn’t be installed outside and had to go inside. We found a place for it inside but no everyone would be able to do that. (Sorry, I’ve forgotten what it does.
2. Compatibility with other devices. We have keypads on our fire stairs and the CH back door that are not compatible with the main entry system. They have to have different codes—not a big issue but frustrating to explain to service providers. Entry has an * first but others have the * last.
3. Pay attention to things like grounding for lightning strikes, moisture barriers if it is outside, a heater for cold weather outside or in a foyer, compatibility with other keypads. Not all entry systems are designed for outdoor use. Our first system stopped working from shorts, moisture, or cold, someone had to reprogram the whole system or no one could get in using a code. In misty weather, particularly for more than a few hours (big problem in DC), our first entry system just didn’t work — the buttons wouldn’t fire. Now that most people have cell phones they can call someone to get buzzed in or have them come to open the door but still, it’s an issue at 4 in the morning or in the afternoon when no one whose phone number you have in your phone is home. We all have an outdoor key but since it isn’t often needed not everyone carries it around.
4. Check that there is something firm under the buttons—this is where a good locksmith is important because they will know the history of everything they recommend. Our buttons are wearing out. Some numbers can’t be used because they were used too much and are weak. I think 7 must have been in every code we’ve used for 10 years. Not a major issue but an indication that the others may go before we actually need a new system.
5. Pay attention to the programming procedure. (I should have put this first.) Be sure there is battery back up or direct wiring so all the codes aren’t wiped out when the electricity goes out — even for 3 seconds. Reprogramming 43 codes is time consuming and not something you want to do on an emergency basis. Ours has 11 things to remember when programing each code—not 11 steps to reprogram—but the list includes things not to do and things that look wrong but are necessary and serve a purpose. It needs reprogramming when people change phone numbers — new phones or new residents — and if it is some time since someone did it, they have to relearn the instructions. We have a wiki now but even finding the instructions when the last person who used them had moved or was unavailable.
6. Check illumination if you don’t have it installed under or near a light. Check the readability of the screen under various conditions. Does it fog over? Some are not legible in the sun. Non-residents are dependent on reading the screen messages.
7. Have a dedicated phone line. We tried using one phone line for both the entry and for the CH which is rarely used now that almost everyone has cell phones. It still didn’t work. There were still too many times when someone used the CH phone and talked a long time. Then the entry didn’t work.
8. Don’t get more functionality that you need. Each step of complexity breeds more complexity down the line. We started out with a complex system that linked to the ground line in each unit. Each unit had their own code, plus codes for the mail carrier, pest control, etc. We could track who was using those codes. Except that the software either didn’t work or no one understood it. It was a true intercom system with a huge dashboard in the basement with a lot of wires. Every time a new landline was installed or changed, the telephone installer would mess up the whole system while connecting and reconnecting wires. Programming was so tedious that we stopped changing codes. We now have one code for residents and another one for vendors and guests. Two codes so we could change the guest code often. But someone had to remember to tell all those vendors and guests about the change and no one could remember or was home to tell everyone. We still have a guest code but don’t change it often. We haven’t needed the feature of tracking who was using a code.
These sound like little things but getting it close to right means less daily irritation. In our situation half of us are dependent on the entry system to get home, and the rest have to use it to check mail or enter the CH. During the pandemic we receive several food deliveries each week, even on some days. Since we are an urban community the doors are always locked except on workdays and during cookouts when there are lots of people round.
Sharon ---- Sharon Villines Takoma Village Cohousing, Washington DC
Hi, not sure we are understanding despite having had a keypad one at our last house. does this not have a keypad? We would not be keen on one that relied on mobiles. For a start I don’t have one.
And I keep wondering about the children and how they are going to get in. regds roz
From: Ucol-shareholders ucol-shareholders-bounces@list.king.net.nz On Behalf Of Jan Burch Sent: Thursday, 8 April 2021 4:04 pm To: UCOL shareholders ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz; sara ferreira ferreirasara@yahoo.com Subject: [Ucol-shareholders] Keyless entry to common house - research and recommendation
Hi folks
I'm sending this to Sara as well as shareholders in the hope that it arrives in time for tonight's meeting.
Recommendation: Spend $1500 getting Dunedin Security to install two E-LOKs - brochure attached.
If you want the background and have time for a long story read on....
Rick and I looked at locks at Placemakers, Mitre 10 and Bunnings. Each one recommended that we go for one that is capable of the wireless and/or blue tooth entry that Alex talked about. It will still have a keypad but if we buy one that has just a keypad we're 'investing in old technology". Coincidentally the American cohousing email list has recently had an article that talked about how important it is to make a good investment in the first place (will copy the content and paste below).
So a lock from Mitre 10 etc that does more than simply keypad entry is going to be about $450 or more... BUT it isn't as easy as just buying a couple off the shelf. The hole cut into the door for a particular lock turns out not to be standard. The one by Sara's unit is particularly large so only a small selection of possible locks will fit into it. I'd assumed that my multi-talented Rick would be able to switch them out, but he has assured me that I am overestimating his talents and nothing is as easy as the YouTube sales video says it will be. So we went to two well known locksmiths: Beggs and Dunedin Security, and after visiting each of them we are wholeheartedly recommending E-LOK with Dunedin Security to install.
The E-LOK is a bit more expensive ($530 from Dunedin Security, $580 from Beggs) but both places recommended it, saying it is way more robust than the ones we'd been considering and very easy to use. They would come out and fit it. Beggs said approx $150 for each install. Dunedin Security said door by Sara's would be 530+approx $100 but installation at the other door would be more (because they need to cut the aluminium door to give a larger hole) so looking at approximately $900 in total for the second door.
I recommend that we ask Dunedin Security to install E-LOKs at both doors for a total cost of approx $1,530. I think they said that once we made the order it would usually be about a week for it to be done.
The E-LOK can do heaps of things in addition to using the keypad. (1) being electronic, it lights up when you touch it - great for use in the dark. (2) you can operate it from a phone app - so potentially a Toioran could be "ön duty" and when they receive a text from someone delivering something to the Common House they could unlock the door for it ... from wherever they happen to be at the time. You could even put me "ön duty" in America! (3) it is possible to do fingerprint entry and swipe-fob entry, but the fingerprint isn't designed for as many people as we have and any lost fobs will cost about $25 to replace, so I don't think we'd want that... however it might be useful if we wanted someone to have temporary access - eg instead of being told the code, any "friends of Toiora"could pay $25 to be issued with a fob,. If it wasn't returned when they were no longer our friends we could program it not to work.
If you aren't convinced by now, read on for advice from a long-time-cohouser when asked about security for the common areas:
HERE IS THE RESPONSE TO THE QUESTION ASKED ON THE EMAIL LIST (remember their winters are way more severe than ours!):
What we have at Takoma is: AEGIS 7000 Series http://www.pach-co.com/products/aegis%20series/aegis7000/aegis7000%20manual....
It is about 10 years old now so there are probably updated ones now. I did the replacement when our first system was hit by lightning so I remember the research and the problems. Advice based on our experience:
1. Find a security / locksmith person who is dependable and recommends a good quality product. Larger cohousing communities are semi-commercial and things wear out. We have 60+ adults and several teens who use the entry system and some of them several times a day. We use our locksmith much more often than you would think based on your own personal experience. But they recommended an entry system that we thought was too expensive. We should have stayed with them. We used another service that was recommended to us but had to have the installer come back and install other features or correct settings several times, and he refused to do even the first programming because “it takes too long.” We had to have things like a heater installed as an addon — not revealed when researching systems. Part of the entry system couldn’t be installed outside and had to go inside. We found a place for it inside but no everyone would be able to do that. (Sorry, I’ve forgotten what it does.
2. Compatibility with other devices. We have keypads on our fire stairs and the CH back door that are not compatible with the main entry system. They have to have different codes—not a big issue but frustrating to explain to service providers. Entry has an * first but others have the * last.
3. Pay attention to things like grounding for lightning strikes, moisture barriers if it is outside, a heater for cold weather outside or in a foyer, compatibility with other keypads. Not all entry systems are designed for outdoor use. Our first system stopped working from shorts, moisture, or cold, someone had to reprogram the whole system or no one could get in using a code. In misty weather, particularly for more than a few hours (big problem in DC), our first entry system just didn’t work — the buttons wouldn’t fire. Now that most people have cell phones they can call someone to get buzzed in or have them come to open the door but still, it’s an issue at 4 in the morning or in the afternoon when no one whose phone number you have in your phone is home. We all have an outdoor key but since it isn’t often needed not everyone carries it around.
4. Check that there is something firm under the buttons—this is where a good locksmith is important because they will know the history of everything they recommend. Our buttons are wearing out. Some numbers can’t be used because they were used too much and are weak. I think 7 must have been in every code we’ve used for 10 years. Not a major issue but an indication that the others may go before we actually need a new system.
5. Pay attention to the programming procedure. (I should have put this first.) Be sure there is battery back up or direct wiring so all the codes aren’t wiped out when the electricity goes out — even for 3 seconds. Reprogramming 43 codes is time consuming and not something you want to do on an emergency basis. Ours has 11 things to remember when programing each code—not 11 steps to reprogram—but the list includes things not to do and things that look wrong but are necessary and serve a purpose. It needs reprogramming when people change phone numbers — new phones or new residents — and if it is some time since someone did it, they have to relearn the instructions. We have a wiki now but even finding the instructions when the last person who used them had moved or was unavailable.
6. Check illumination if you don’t have it installed under or near a light. Check the readability of the screen under various conditions. Does it fog over? Some are not legible in the sun. Non-residents are dependent on reading the screen messages.
7. Have a dedicated phone line. We tried using one phone line for both the entry and for the CH which is rarely used now that almost everyone has cell phones. It still didn’t work. There were still too many times when someone used the CH phone and talked a long time. Then the entry didn’t work.
8. Don’t get more functionality that you need. Each step of complexity breeds more complexity down the line. We started out with a complex system that linked to the ground line in each unit. Each unit had their own code, plus codes for the mail carrier, pest control, etc. We could track who was using those codes. Except that the software either didn’t work or no one understood it. It was a true intercom system with a huge dashboard in the basement with a lot of wires. Every time a new landline was installed or changed, the telephone installer would mess up the whole system while connecting and reconnecting wires. Programming was so tedious that we stopped changing codes. We now have one code for residents and another one for vendors and guests. Two codes so we could change the guest code often. But someone had to remember to tell all those vendors and guests about the change and no one could remember or was home to tell everyone. We still have a guest code but don’t change it often. We haven’t needed the feature of tracking who was using a code.
These sound like little things but getting it close to right means less daily irritation. In our situation half of us are dependent on the entry system to get home, and the rest have to use it to check mail or enter the CH. During the pandemic we receive several food deliveries each week, even on some days. Since we are an urban community the doors are always locked except on workdays and during cookouts when there are lots of people round.
Sharon ---- Sharon Villines Takoma Village Cohousing, Washington DC
ucol-shareholders@list.king.net.nz
-
Jan Burch -
Roz Wilson