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Re: [Ucol-shareholders] Revised BC Fees with NZI Insurance - Jan 2021
by Y Lee 12 Jan '21

12 Jan '21

As attached NZI insurance quote is $57,636.67 This is the LOWER figure of the two we were quoted. It's bumped up all our BC annual fees. Regards Min

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Fwd: Personal Financing
by Susan Jack 12 Jan '21

12 Jan '21

Hi all - just so that everyone is being the same information - from Stephen Edge today. Susan > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Stephen Edge <Stephen.Edge(a)kiwibank.co.nz> > Subject: RE: Personal Financing > Date: 12 January 2021 at 10:22:40 AM NZDT > To: "Maria Callau (maria(a)sur-architecture.com)" <maria(a)sur-architecture.com>, "Susan Jack (susanjjack(a)gmail.com)" <susanjjack(a)gmail.com>, "Alex King (alex(a)king.net.nz)" <alex(a)king.net.nz>, "Catherine Spencer (cmspencer.nz(a)zoho.com)" <cmspencer.nz(a)zoho.com> > > Hi all, > > After much thought and reflection I am of the view the Covenant needs to be removed and the BC Rules simplified to a standard format, i.e. all reference to decision making and co-housing does not appear at all in the standard BC rules. By doing this the individual unit titles will be clear and the BC rules will be “standard”. This will remove the obvious current “road-blocks” for prospective lenders, not just for current owners, but for all future unit purchasers who may also run into the same problems in the years to come if the Group doesn’t change things now. > > My experience to date suggests co-housing Groups all have different approaches in how they set things up so there is at present no consistency across the co-housing sector. This means each new co-housing project will face similar challenges with the banks for years to come. > > In my view the Earthsong approach using Sale & Purchase agreements (SPA) makes sense as a way to bind people into a co-housing agreement. This obviously relies on trust and a commitment to sell units to like-minded people but it seems logical to me this will work. > > The clause in the SPA may still trigger some negative responses with some lenders but having clear titles and standard BC rules removes all the automatic flags and simplifies things. > > From my reading of the resource consent there is no requirement imposed by Council to register any specific Covenant against titles. The Council just states “The residents shall be actively engaged in a cohousing scheme…..” which of course you are. > > I believe, over time as more co-housing projects come on to the market, banks will become more familiar with them and how they work but for now I don’t think the timing is right to try and change the banking market. In my opinion this will be a road simply too long and hard for you guys. > > Please note the above is my personal view as things presently stand because Kiwibank has no set policy on these matters. The final decision on what to do is for the Group to decide upon. > > Cheers, Stephen > > Stephen Edge > Senior Manager Property Finance > > > DDI 07 571 3846 | M 027 8395 057 | F 07 571 3845 > > www.kiwibank.co.nz <http://www.kiwibank.co.nz/> > Kiwibank Limited, Level 1, 41 The Strand, P O Box 13333, Tauranga 3110 > > > > This email, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, distribution > or copying of this email or the information contained in it is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please > notify us immediately and delete it. Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > > > From: Stephen Edge > Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2021 11:36 AM > To: Maria Callau <maria(a)sur-architecture.com>; Susan Jack <susanjjack(a)gmail.com>; Alex King <alex(a)king.net.nz>; Catherine Spencer (cmspencer.nz(a)zoho.com) <cmspencer.nz(a)zoho.com> > Subject: Personal Financing > > Hi all, > > HNY! > > I haven’t made any final decisions yet but I thought I would give you a brief update on my present thinking which I have bullet pointed below: > > The Covenant and the unique Body Corporate Rules are still proving problematic. > The idea of a running a pilot model inside Business Banking is not finding the necessary support I need. > There’s no issue of course if people don’t need to borrow money against their units but when they do lenders can’t ignore the Covenant and the BC rules. Because these are different the bank(s) are treating them as being out of policy. > Changing banking policy is not easy to achieve and I think this will take a lot of time, which of course we don’t have. All the major banks seem to have the same stance. > There’s no Covenant registered against titles at Earthsong although they do have unique BC rules. > Present thinking is the Covenant needs to be removed and the BC rules need to be simplified to standard wording only. > Earthsong use clauses in Sale & Purchase Agreements to obligate present owners and future unit purchasers to sign a co-housing agreement. This seems to be an effective way to ensure units are sold to likeminded people but keeps the title clear of covenants and could keep the BC rules simple. > The co-housing agreement then becomes the primary document that the community uses. The title and BC Rules are kept “simple”. > The clause used in the Sale & Purchase Agreement could still trip people up when trying to raise mortgage finance because it will refer to the co-housing agreement but if the title and BC Rules are standard I believe this is a much simpler for lenders to deal with. > > The above will give you a snap shot of what’s in my head at present but to be honest I’m still thinking it all through. > > I will be back in the office from next Monday by which time I should have finalised my thoughts. > > Cheers, Stephen > > Stephen Edge > Senior Manager Property Finance > > > DDI 07 571 3846 | M 027 8395 057 | F 07 571 3845 > > www.kiwibank.co.nz <http://www.kiwibank.co.nz/> > Kiwibank Limited, Level 1, 41 The Strand, P O Box 13333, Tauranga 3110 > > > > This email, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, distribution > or copying of this email or the information contained in it is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please > notify us immediately and delete it. Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > >

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Draft agenda for 4 Jan attached.
by Jan Burch 11 Jan '21

11 Jan '21

Hi folks We're at NumberWorks'nWords for our 7.30pm Thurs meeting this week, but I thought that since we are in the unusual position of having no classes operating in the building first, and I have been missing all you guys, I would invite anyone who wishes to arrive at 6pm to share a BYO dinner with me. Even though we need to self-cater, you'll still need to RVSP to me before the meeting so I can bring in plates and cutlery. I ride in past all the wonderful cheap ethnic eateries in South Dunedin, so I could pick up takeaway orders on my way in to unlock the building, or we could get pizza delivered or we could do a pot luck or maybe meet at a nearby restaurant for a meal before the meeting .... I'm not quite sure what would interest the greater number of people ... but if you are keen to have a shared dinner before the meeting, please let me know and we'll figure out the way that suits the greatest number of people. On the attached draft agenda I've listed the items I have been sent and guessed at an appropriate order. Feel free to send in additions or suggestions for changes to the order. Zoom details are on the attached draft agenda. Looking forward to catching up with everyone Jan

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Agenda items wanted for 14 January
by Jan Burch 10 Jan '21

10 Jan '21

Sue T will chair and I am notetaker for our first 2021 meeting which will be next week. We're eager for you to email me with your agenda items. I'll try to get a draft agenda out on Sunday night. Looking forward to seeing everyone again Thanks Jan

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Fwd: Personal Financing
by Susan Jack 10 Jan '21

10 Jan '21

Hi all This message came in from Stephen Edge (Kiwibank) earlier in the week - please note that as Stephen says, he has not made any final decisions but this is his present thinking. I imagine this topic will already be on the agenda. Thanks, Susan > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Stephen Edge <Stephen.Edge(a)kiwibank.co.nz> > Subject: Personal Financing > Date: 7 January 2021 at 11:36:20 AM NZDT > To: Maria Callau <maria(a)sur-architecture.com>, Susan Jack <susanjjack(a)gmail.com>, Alex King <alex(a)king.net.nz>, "Catherine Spencer (cmspencer.nz(a)zoho.com)" <cmspencer.nz(a)zoho.com> > > Hi all, > > HNY! > > I haven’t made any final decisions yet but I thought I would give you a brief update on my present thinking which I have bullet pointed below: > > The Covenant and the unique Body Corporate Rules are still proving problematic. > The idea of a running a pilot model inside Business Banking is not finding the necessary support I need. > There’s no issue of course if people don’t need to borrow money against their units but when they do lenders can’t ignore the Covenant and the BC rules. Because these are different the bank(s) are treating them as being out of policy. > Changing banking policy is not easy to achieve and I think this will take a lot of time, which of course we don’t have. All the major banks seem to have the same stance. > There’s no Covenant registered against titles at Earthsong although they do have unique BC rules. > Present thinking is the Covenant needs to be removed and the BC rules need to be simplified to standard wording only. > Earthsong use clauses in Sale & Purchase Agreements to obligate present owners and future unit purchasers to sign a co-housing agreement. This seems to be an effective way to ensure units are sold to likeminded people but keeps the title clear of covenants and could keep the BC rules simple. > The co-housing agreement then becomes the primary document that the community uses. The title and BC Rules are kept “simple”. > The clause used in the Sale & Purchase Agreement could still trip people up when trying to raise mortgage finance because it will refer to the co-housing agreement but if the title and BC Rules are standard I believe this is a much simpler for lenders to deal with. > > The above will give you a snap shot of what’s in my head at present but to be honest I’m still thinking it all through. > > I will be back in the office from next Monday by which time I should have finalised my thoughts. > > Cheers, Stephen > > Stephen Edge > Senior Manager Property Finance > > > DDI 07 571 3846 | M 027 8395 057 | F 07 571 3845 > > www.kiwibank.co.nz <http://www.kiwibank.co.nz/> > Kiwibank Limited, Level 1, 41 The Strand, P O Box 13333, Tauranga 3110 > > > > This email, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, distribution > or copying of this email or the information contained in it is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please > notify us immediately and delete it. Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > >

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Email nightmare on Manchester St
by Warren Hurley 30 Dec '20

30 Dec '20

Hi everyone, Like a few others I have been thwarted by my ISP's email 'filtering' ! I have, after 3 days, received a reply from Orcon and have been able to download the 38 UCOL emails that were sitting in purgatory since about the 20th December. There may be some from earlier dates, but I'll never know as Orcon in their wisdom delete emails that are seen to be languishing . . . I have clicked the appropriate buttons to release all future UCOL emails. I think. I'll read these 38 emails and catch up with the issues at hand. All the best everyone. Here's to downloading a wonderful New Year. Cheers Warren UPDATE: I first tried to send this about 6pm on 27th. But no such luck. Who knows when this will finally be delivered . . . Anyone recommend a good ISP? Not Spark, or Slingshot. Or Orcon obviously.

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Kiwibank
by Catherine Spencer 24 Dec '20

24 Dec '20

Hi all, I received a request for information from Stephen Edge yesterday, and it included the following: > The 5% capital gain contribution is just one piece of the jigsaw. At present because cohousing is different to the norm the bank (and seemingly all the banks) is just saying a blanket no. I haven’t researched the Earthsong loans yet but I suspect each one may have a different story attached. > > What we may need is a simplification of the documents that preserves the cohousing ethos (and the 5% capital gain contribution) but is acceptable to the bank(s). > > Cheers, Stephen > We may eventually need to remove the 5% CG in order to get enough banks on board to get everyone across the line, but according to our central banker we are not at that point yet. Can we allow Stephen time to find a solution before we irrevocably change the documents? The process of drafting any possible changes can be worked in parallel, so we are ready, should that be the course of action we need to take, but let us firstly let Stephen’s process run. Thanks, Catherine.

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Re: [Ucol-shareholders] Body Corp Rules v9 Dec 2021
by Y Lee 24 Dec '20

24 Dec '20

Hi All I have made changes to the BC rules as agreed in the meeting at Anne's house on 21 Dec 2021. Changes are yellow highlighted. Removed mention of a covenant, and the 5% rule, but retaining all other references to the Commons Development Fund. Minimised references to "cohousing" in the beginning parts of the document by extensively rewriting what used to be the Kaupapa. What remains of the Principles of Occupation, now relate directly to the wording in our resource consent (copy attached, see pg9, General Conditions, #2). I have also included changes made in response to our lawyer, Simon Milne's feedback. Alex has circulated the email, with my responses in red. *Please read it before making any comments about the changes.* In particular, for #25, that the Rules "don't provide for the appointment of the mediation and dispute resolution team". I have retained the parts that are directly related to the Body Corp dispute resolution process, and cut out everything else. I suggest the Mediation Team add this as an appendix to our Cohousing Agreement instead. *Before anybody emails me for any reason other than typos, remember that we are doing this rewrite primarily for the banks, and our future of being able to include unit owners with mortgages.* Think twice, before writing that email, and preferably, don't send anything before the new year. Merry Christmas. Min

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Budget Control Summary - December 2020
by High St Cohousing 23 Dec '20

23 Dec '20

Hi all, The Budget Control Group met yesterday. Here is a summary of our Contingency: *Assuming that we don't get any new large unexpected variation the total remaining at the end of the project (assuming settlement early March) would be around: 186K.* *In addition we would have around 31.4K for the kitchen. * See details below. Here is a list of variations approved for the *PROJECT* over November/December (from contingency) Please note that numbers have been rounded for this email, for more details see Nicola's report / PCG meeting report attached. 4..7K for fire alarm canopy 10.4K for patios (M1 and M2) 6.3K Guest Bathroom tiling, etc. 11.1K Slab (Hot water tank) 1.6K Handrails (site works, in addition to provisional sums) 8.6K Asphalt thickening - 3K For items identified as not needed (from items estimated earlier from contingency) ----- 39.6K Total approved to be spent from contingency Contingency remaining before items approved (list above):* 76.6K* Contingency remaining after paying for items approved (list above): *37K* Assuming +* 80K *(A2 profit) Assuming + *69K* (Heritage fence) *Total Remaining at the end of the project: 186K* ___________________________________________________ In addition, here is a list of variations approved for the *KITCHEN* over November/December 8.1K Floor & paint 3.2K Plumbing and electrical plugs 1.6K Common House Kitchen 15 Amp powerpoint 5.7K Appliances -------- 18.6K Total approved -------- 50K Total budgeted -------- *31.4K Remaining for kitchen - to be discussed in January 2021.* ________________________________________________________ If you have any questions, we can discuss this at our meeting - end of January. Thanks, Maria -- *Maria Callau* *TOIORA* High Street Cohousing UCOL Member and Project Coordinator 0211847490

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development fund
by Jeffrey Robinson 23 Dec '20

23 Dec '20

Hi everyone It’sJeffrey, Catherine’s partner. I’m new to the cohousing project but keen to beinvolved and looking forward to living in Toiora. I’d like toput forward a few thoughts about the development fund and some figures producedby Rainer. There are currentlytwo potential revenue sources for the development fund: monthly fees, similarto the BodyCorp, and the contribution of 5% of capital gains (5%cg) upon saleof units. A fewmeetings ago there was discussion about ‘do we need to change documents formortgages? And if we were to take out the 5%cg clause upon resale, how could werecoup that money for the development fund through annual fees?’ Accordingto Rainer’s table and email, if the capital gain of every unit over the next yearwas 10% then 5% of capital gains (5%cg) is about $65,000. But the only way that we would get $65,000 intothe development fund via the 5%cg next year is if we sell all the units with a10% capital gain. No offence intended Rainer, but I suggest that theunderlying premise of your figures is wrong. This may seem like splitting hairsbut we need to be careful about the big numbers we wave around and where theycome from and what are the underlying assumptions. There seems to be an idea in the group thatwe will have ‘too much money’. I suggestthat a more likely scenario is that once everyone is settled into cohousing theturnover of units will be relatively low (it’s going to a great place to live). Perhaps only one unit sale every few years. If, for example, the capital gains on oneunit is $100,000 after 5 years then, when sold, $5,000 goes to the development fund. In theshort term, taking the 5%cg out of the cohousing documents may only have a smalleffect on the liquidity of the development fund (depending on how much we levyannually). In the long term, if weassume that property prices keep rising (quickly or slowly) 5%cg might become substantial. (The ideathat prices keep going up forever is also questionable. Property bubbles expandand pop for various reasons. World issues of climate change/pestilence/war canmean the collapse of financial systems. These things have happened throughouthistory. The recent large increase in property values in Dunedin of the last 2years is not consistent with the previous 28 years and we cannot assume it willcontinue.) Earthsongsuggested a percentage of capital gains be returned to the Commons because,over the long term, the large rises in property values made those who sold alot of money, due to some extent on the back of the work by everyone in theCommons, but none of that money ever came back to the Commons, as they wouldnever be sold. The pointof the Covenant is to keep Toiora as cohousing in the long term to fulfil theconditions of our Resource Consent. It is simple and enduring, but we may need tolook at other ways in the short term to fulfil those conditions. The point ofthe 5%cg contribution is to fund development in the long term. I suggest that away is found to keep this contribution as a mandatory part of the cohousingset-up. Not so much for the short term but for the long term. As Iunderstand it, the actual amount of yearly fees to go to the development fundhas not been fully discussed, unlike the BodyCorp fees which have been decided.Over the next few years the development fund will mostly come from our own annualcontributions. With mortgages, living expenses and BodyCorp fees to pay theremay not be much left to accumulate in the development fund. I suggest we are veryunlikely to have ‘too much money’. BestJeffrey

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